Fully cures in about 1 week so be careful for the first week. Interestingly, though, on the other hand, you can’t use oil-based paints over latex paint.. The shellac piece really pops the grain. My only concern with this is that my table top is two feet of solid maple. If you want to take an extra precaution you can use shellac as an intermediate coat. Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want to bring out the natural character and color of the wood. Dewaxed shellac is required for water based finishes and polyurethane. Wrap the piece of muslin around the sock, holding the edges of the fabric behind the sock. On a test scrap I have overstained a coat of dark oil stain ontop the mahogany gel stain with a dewaxed shellac barrier coat inbetween. The alcohol in the shellac sterilizes the surface and the dried resin acts as a … Each of the larger squares has a different finish used as the first step, though one is all lacquer. How light is a light sanding? This product can actually be used on wooden floors. I'd like to create a darker overtone. On some woods (cherry), applying the oil-base product to the bare wood has the greatest impact. Bob D has already mentioned that shellac works fine over Minwax, and I also have that experience. For really glossy surfaces like laminate IKEA cabinets, the adhesion is not as strong as shellac primer. I'd never use a water based product on furniture. If so How long do I need to leave the oil based to cure? Shellac has wide compatibility. Best temperature for application: between 40f and 90f (4c and 32c) Bob D. 2006. It is a commonly held belief that oil-based paints don’t mix well with other types of paints; however, at the same time, it is also said that it is perfectly okay to use latex paint over an oil-based primer. I wait a minimum of 10 hours before applying the shellac after staining. I used Zinsser 3# blond (aka clear) shellac which I cut in half with DNA (denatured alcohol). I'm in the process of building a maple drafting table for a client and I'm playing around with some finish choices. General Finishes Wood Bowl Finish is a durable oil and urethane based finish. This can also be used to speed up the process because the shellac can go directly onto oiled wood without waiting for the oil to dry. I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. Shellac is a good choice over linseed oil because it will adhere well even if the oil isn't fully cured. The traditional varnish is based on natural resins and oils and is thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine. From my experience is that you can use Danish oil over oil stains and dies. Water-based oil-modified polyurethane is a relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base with the cleanup of a water base. If so some insight would be nice. This page was generated at 06:46 AM. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome. One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. Shellac.net Wood Finish Supply & Merit Industries Thank You for your support, we appreciate your business Ron, Pete & Shannon: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS Type: Oil Based Non Ambering Use: Interior Raw Wood Application: *Note. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible. I'm really embarrassed to even be asking this, but I've searched here, at Sawmill Creek and even at shellac.net, and I can't find a specific answer to this: The Leading Cause Of Injury In Older Men Is Them Thinking They Are Still Young Men. Also I always apply stain and varnish separately and never use a combined … Can a water base stain varnish go over a previously coated oil based stain varnish? then a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend is a good choice. Apply 2 to 3 coats of oil based varnish, sanding lightly between coats. Shellac-Based. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Add a small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the pad before application. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. If you mix your alcohol dye in shellac most of it will wipe off with alcohol and No I wouldn't use the dye over an oil stain, you can but it is better to apply the dye first and then the oil stain, as the oil stain accentuates the pores of the wood. General Finishes Enduro-Var Urethane Topcoat can only be used over raw wood or General Finishes water-based wood stains or dye stains. So there’s no need to go oil on oil simply because your stain is oil-based. "?ǝɹɐ sɹǝƃuıɟ ɹnoʎ ǝɹǝɥʍ ʍouʞ noʎ op `ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s,ʇı". Created from the dried secretions of the Lac beetle, this natural product is … amber shellac will seal them off so they can't bleed into the finish coat to ruin it. That will take at least a week or so to be sure. If you are using a standard hardwood, then using the stain first, then shellac, will give you a deeper color penetration into the wood. I used this over MinWax Early American (#230) with no problems. For especially tough knots use multiple coats of amber shellac. We used Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. This may sound even more confusing, so to help you understand better, here is a thorough breakdown of the difference between … (Finishing Forum) Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. By adding oil to varnish you only reduce its durability. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain odors. Question Thinned … The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. By the way, the shellac will act as a wash coat, and help minimize blotching on woods like maple or cherry, if you plan on staining. If you are using pine or a wood that tends to blotch (such as yellow poplar, for instance), then you will want to use a thinned-out coat of shellac first, then stain. It can go over, or under, either. It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. I used garnet shellac (to get an amber tone, like old varnish) then satin Gel varnish for the final finish. The stain goes on as a liquid, the solvent evaporates, and the stain dries. Re: Shellac over oil-based stain? Enduro-Var cannot be used with any oil-based product, sanding sealer or shellac. It dries to an amber color with a gloss finish. check out the. The stain was color matched to our new hickory floors, which are stained a medium-dark true brown (no yellow). From Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: You can apply oil-base varnish (non-poly) over shellac without any problem. Depending on how new the wood is, one or two coats of 3-lb. ... (NGR), and water stains, and over lacquer-base fillers. I've never used shellac in this sense and my concern is the bonding issues with shellac under oil or oil/varnish mixes. ... and inferior looking finish. Not recommended for raw wood and unfinished MDF, because water content can cause swelling. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. ... Shellac can be used over any stain except alcohol-base types and over any filler. Drying oils like linseed and tung are a lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming finishes. With polyester's rigidity, I'm worried the wood movement will crack the stiff polyester. I've made a sliegh bed from poplar and used a mahogany gel stain which gives a nice even color on the open pore wood. Some varnishes are lighter in color than others because of the drying oil that's used to make them (e.g., soya oil). The differences between the squares are subtle. Then apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of stain let dry completely for a least 24 hours. Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. Forum Responses Also, on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have also never used this but am aware of its great durability. ... "What finish is best for over the oil base Gel Stains? Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics. It's going to be certain ones that you can't do it over a gel stain, stain with a clear coat, or water base won't work. You can apply to raw wood, or you can apply it over an existing finish. Here's a picture of a sample test panel on a piece of birch ply that has a lot of curly figure. (*When working over an existing finish or painting on the stain ... Gel Stain over raw wood: Dry Times: … You can use one coat to seal the wood. It is for interior use only and requires 3 coats for maximum durability. However, I am not a fan of this method for a number of reasons. It produces the exact look I was looking for, however … Oil-based finishes amber over time; do not use them over white or very light colors. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Finishers discuss compatibility and wear issues with using shellac in combination with Tung oil and varnish. If you plan to use oil-base poly, it's best to use dewaxed shellac to improve adhesion with the poly. Linseed-oil based stain is perhaps the classic variety of stain. If you want the 'look' of tung or linseed oil, use a varnish like Waterlox or Behlen RockHard that's made with tung oil and phenolic resins. That can lead to crazing and cracking. I think you are asking for trouble with the oil/shellac. "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" From contributor K: Finally, the oil-base varnish provides a lot of durability (e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance). Hope this helps. But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. If you do not desire the amber, and with java I don't see why you would, then you could head straight into the final topcoats. Well worth the trip to your local library or bookstore. They are also great at covering knots and heavy stains. Oil based primer. http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...45&postcount=1, https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1p...qcZKHyrqKhikFA, If this is your first visit, be sure to Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. #6 Regular solvent based varnish or lacquer can go over any shellac. When you want a "close to the wood" natural finish without a lot of protection from wear, heat, water, etc. I'd like to use a water-based polyurethane over a staircase I stained last night with a Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing. The coating can be applied with a brush, roller or a sprayer. I wouldn't. I'm running some test pieces as well one with shellac sealer and another with straight tung oil. All you need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe … Water base GF En- duro-Var, High Performance or … It also can go over oil-based finishes and can be applied using synthetic-bristle brushes, a foam roller or a rag, as can other water-based polyurethanes. I would not recommend applying a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend over shellac. Durability wise, this formulation is better than an alkyd varnish but not quite as tough as a uralkyd varnish (polyurethane). I read that I can use a water-based poly over an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours. Dry time: one hour. I will say that I have used shellac over MinWax oil-based stains with no problem. You don't want to apply a harder finish (varnish) over a softer finish (oil/varnish blend). In French polishing, a drying oil like linseed is used to pop the shimmer/chatoyance and figure in the wood before the shellac is applied. All times are GMT-5. Get shopping advice from experts, friends and the community! Shellac. Anybody have any experience in this finish? If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. What is Shellac? Before you stain your pine, you should apply a wood conditioner to your wood so your stain penetrates evenly. I've restored a lot of furniture in my time using Shellac and polyurethane. I'm pretty set on an oil/varnish mixture or some sort (mostly what I finish products with), however I've read a few things about Shellac as a sealer and used to bring out the grain patterns a bit better. Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing" covers all this stuff in detail. Begin applying by lightly squeezing the pad to allow a small amount of shellac to seep through the muslin. Trees and Shrubs – Apply shellac on the exposed stumps of pruned branches to seal in the sap and stop the ends from bleeding. My only comment to add is, with Minwax, I always let oil based stain dry for a day, then wipe it down with terry cloth moistened lightly with paint thinner, then let it dry for another couple days before applying top coat. It cannot be used over other finishes, or over oil-base stains or many fillers; the solvents in lacquer will dissolve other finishes and incompatible stains and fillers. October 13, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. ... Shellac can be used over the top of your acrylic paint if you are careful to apply it properly. Zinser Shellac (regular and dewaxed) is a great barrier coat. 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